Random Gold Cup thoughts

• 

  frank said,

  Holden certainly has been the player of the Gold Cup, I was disappointed with Heaps, Colin Clark, and Jimmy Conrad besides Adu in the Haiti game.
  I think our biggest lack on our mens national team is a solid holding / defensive midfielder, someone who can tackle, read the game, and pass beyond belief. Michael Bradley could become that player but his descision making needs work.

• 

  Creaven said,

  frank,

  I think defensive midfield (Bradley, Edu, R. Clark, Jones) is our deepest position.

• 

  Shawn Gillogly said,

  There are no Canadian teams hosting the Gold Cup because Canada isn’t the host nation, the US is. Just because they glom onto MLS and subvert the purpose of the league does not mean they get to glom onto *all* of our events and suck venues away. If Canada was the host nation, do you *really* think they would hold matches here? So why do we have to pander to them?

  If we win the WC bid for 22 (which seems likely at this point), does Montreal, Toronto or Vancouver get the right to host matches for *that* too? Where does this “Canada gets to glom on US sports” thing end?

  No. Just no. And I’m absolutely against adding any more Canadian teams to MLS as well. The purpose of MLS is to promote the sport in the US. If Canada wants a first division so bad, they should make one. Toronto was a sweetheart deal when the league needed one. Vancouver was rubbish and unnecessary. Another Canadian team would be a betrayal. The league needs to increase its national exposure. And it cannot do that if it doesn’t make a concerted effort to penetrate ALL national markets. And it cannot do that if it lets Canada siphon off potential clubs.

• 

  Creaven said,

  Shawn,

  We have hosted every Gold Cup, ever. We got a monopoly on the tournament. Wouldn’t the tournament be more interesting if there were matches throughout the continent? I think so.

• 

  Shawn Gillogly said,

  Sure, if you want to actually host it *through* the whole Continent. But the whole “if not Canada” thing doesn’t hold water to me. If “why not Vancouver?” then “why not Azteca?” Honestly, Azteca has more right to be holding the Continent’s highest competition than Toronto does.

  No reason they can’t bid it through the region, if that’s what the region thinks is best. But just arbitrarily throwing Canada the right to host games and not the rest of the region perpetuates the idea that Canada is entitled to suck from our sports’ market whenever it desires.

• 

  Jose said,

  It’s very difficult to make any objective observations of the Gold cup given the level of the competition we are playing. With some of the pressure Haiti gave a lot of the guys collapsed. Imagine what would happen against Holland, Brazil, England etc… Holden, Rogers, Beckerman, Marshall, Goodson and Pause ( not sure who I may have left out as I have been watching the matches with one eye shut but these are the guys that stood out to me)all played well enough but where do these guys fit in on the 1st team. Davies, Ching, Feilhaber and Cherundolo are already 1st teamers and played like it. Quaranta, Arnaud, Evans and Perkins played just OK. I got dizzy watching Heaps get spun around like a top by the Haitian players, doubt we’ll see him again. Cooper, Adu, Conrad, Robles, Parkhurst and Pearce did nothing to make a case for themselves for SA 2010 although I think Pearce makes it for lack of other options and Adu to give him experience for 2014. Parkhurst and Heaps in particular were not very good. So given the level of competition we really have no great suprises here. The guys I expected to do well did and those I suspected wouldn’t didn’t. Mildly suprised Adu didn’t play that well but I guess it takes more than 2 matches to shake all that rust off and he was mighty rusty. Not sold on Holden, against better competition I suspect he struggles big time. Beckerman played very well and has decent technical ability but his lack of speed and diminutive size makes it unlikely he performs to this level when playing the big boys. Rogers showed flashes of some good stuff. I think he may have a future but “future” is the key word he has a lot more to improve on before he can make a claim for a 1st team spot. He may get to SA same way Adu does, as experience for 2014 when presumably the 2 of them play a bigger role on the USMNT. Time will tell.

  Frank I have to agree with Creaven, defensive mid is our deepest position.

• 

  Shawn Gillogly said,

  And I’ll echo the agreement on defensive mid being easily our deepest position. The issue the side has (especially in the 4-2-2-1-1 that Bradley seems to have gravitated to) is the lack of wide players. From that standpoint, Adu’s willingness to only play AMC/withdrawn striker really makes inclusion at this point problematic. He’s not competing with Bradley/Jones/Feilhaber/Clark/Beckerman/Edu. He’s competing with Davies/Altidore/Ching/and Dempsey/Donovan who both switch into that role in matches as well.

  I Also agree that Adu’s lack of pace is troubling. Because in the past the only direction he’s been able to play is straight ahead. And that requires pace.

  I don’t think the USMNT can afford to bring “anyone” to the WC as an “experience.” Brazil can do that, because they’re going to get an easy draw and slaughter two opponents. So they can throw guys out there in a meaningless Group Stage match or at the end of a match to learn. The US will almost certainly get a Group of Death and will be forced to play and play hard all 3 matches. In that scenario, including anyone to gain “experience” is suicide. Every player on the roster will have to be a legitimate contributor. Right now, is Adu one? At this point does he do anything better than the people he is competing with?

  Bradley’s not going to change his tactics away from what worked at the Confed Cup unless he needs to chase a game. And at this point, I don’t think he should. The side’s pace, work rate and athleticism are the attributes the side is strongest in. People saying we should emulate Brazil simply don’t take it seriously that the number of nations that CAN emulate Brazil are minimal. And heck, did this Brazil side really look “classic” Brazil or more like 94 Brazil?

  So assuming four strikers, did Adu break into Davies, Altidore, Ching, or Dempsey/Donovan and make the case to be on the squad? Nope. Is he willing to play the role that Rogers and Holden played? Nope. So where does he fit? Right now? Nowhere. He’s got a year to improve. I’m not as convinced he has a spot at this point. Though he’s going to be given every chance to stay on the squad for marketing purposes.

  Holden and Rogers both showed that they have enough, IMHO, to spell Donovan or Dempsey in the wide role when one or the other steps up top. I would say that one may be in and the other fighting with formless Kljestan for another spot.

  Lots has been said about how how Chad Marshall played. Meh. He looked “ok.” I had hoped for better. Heath Pearce is getting props from people. Sorry, but his display makes me think that his level of competence is CONCACAF minnows. And if Bocanegra has to be in the squad as captain (and I think Boca is #3 centerback behind Gooch/Demerit right now, so that means LB), that means there’s only room for one more LB. Guess? Castillo gets a peek sometime next year. I think the other options have played themselves off the squad and Bradley would rather convert a RB to LB (possible Frankie).

• 

  Jose said,

  You are right to say bringing someone for experience is not the way to go. However I think this is what Bob Bradley will do. 23 spots and rarely do the 2 backup keepers and bottom 3 or 4 on the roster see much if any playing time. Look for Bradley to keep the rotation short as he did in the confed cup. He will have more depth at his disposal but we’re talking Jones, Edu, Ching, Cherundolo, Hejduk. If and it’s a big if Holden, Rogers and Adu get to SA it’s not likely they see much if any playing time. Left Back is a big problem we can only hope Castillo will be the answer there. Boca is OK there (slow) and Spector can play on the left if necessary with Cherundolo and Hejduk on the right.

• 

  Jose said,

  “Holden and Rogers both showed enough” against Grenada, Honduras and Haiti. Perspective is necessary when evaluating these guys. I like their potential and hope they continue to develop into nice attacking options but to say they have showed enough, it’s too early to say that. Let’s see them play some real competition before we declare them the next generation of Donovan/Dempsey.

• 

  Bill said,

  While the competition of the Gold Cup is a serious downgrade from the Confederations Cup, the lower level of play allows teams to assess their lesser talent. The US has been able to probe their talent pool more completely and I believe several conclusions could be drawn. The sole standout is Holden who looks to be worth serious consideration going forward and might have a future beyond our shores. Unfortunately, Holden only further strengthens our deepest position although he seems to possess some attacking quality, which needs to be put to a sterner test.

  If Holden can pass the test, the question to answer for the US is how to put all this quality to use with only two or three playing slots available in the central mid-field. Bradley probably needs to think outside the box, but I fear he’s so firmly inside the box that he’ll simply keep the quality on the bench. Perhaps its too much to expect that players in the US will be able to excel at more than a single position. Some of our talent at center midfield might hold the key to addressing the team’s systematic weaknesses.

  Beyond Holden, the pickings are slim. In particular, the US seems lacking in the defensive positions, with a stunning lack of quality at outside back. Our best outside backs are not up to high-level international competition and their backups are stunningly ill suited as shown clearly against Haiti. In general, our defensive unit defends well at center back; they are uniformly poor in terms of passing. I took a few moments to look at the statistics from the Confederations Cup website. The passing efficiency of the US quartet is by far the worst at that tournament, with passing efficiencies of nearly 45-65%. By comparison most team’s passing efficiency is best from the back with players approaching 80%+ in efficiency. While our defenders win the ball, they give it back to the opponents far too easily.

  Given the importance of the outside back in modern football, the weakness in this key position is troubling indeed. On most of the best sides today, the outside back (or wing back) is a key source of attacking creativity. Given our general lack of a creative center mid or withdrawn striker, the creativity deficit for the US is quite profound. We probably can’t fix this issue in time for WC 2010, but it would be a crime to not recognize the issue and constructively engage in developing players who wan provide a creative influence from either the center or the side of the pitch.

  Bradley’s continued commitment to target strikers like Casey and now Ching is troubling. Ching’s introduction into the Haiti game had a prevailingly negative impact on the US’s style of play. His presence sucked all the creativity out of the side as the entire offense switched to mindlessly bombing the box with aimless crosses. Holden provided the moment of brilliance that gave Bradley his way out of the tactical dead-end. I’d note that Davies looked dangerous and extremely troubling to Haiti until Ching was introduced at which time Davies disappeared from the game. My argument with the target forward is that their presence brings out the very worst tendencies in the US. Ching and Casey in particular are not dynamic enough to offer much else to the team, and Cooper while more dynamic has limited quality. Concisely, target forwards make the US one-dimensional on offense and diminish our defensive posture. Their presence encourages long passes, which then gifts possession to our opponents. On the other hand, Bradley is committed to this approach so we’re probably stuck with it. This approach alone may cost us advancement in the WC next year.

  Aside from all this, Mexico is a disaster. If we can’t win on August 12th in Azteca, well it might be a long time before we have a better chance.

• 

  Jose said,

  Altidore and Davies are Bradley’s two strikers. Ching will be the third off the bench for lack of a better option at the moment. Casey was horrible in Confed Cup and Cooper did nothing to stake a claim. Dempsey and Donovan can play there as well, but this move weakens the team on the flank if they play there. Possession and distribution from the back is a huge problem, not sure what the solution is there. Cherundolo will help in that regard but the other 3 defenders regardless of who is there are weak in this area. Maybe, Onyewu shows improvement with a year in Italy but it still would leave half the back line deficient there. It is what it is right now, for the future US Soccer needs to improve their youth in this area for sure.

• 

  Bill said,

  Creavan,

  A couple of comments on the traffic here. Its interesting that your post on the Gold Cup quickly picks up 11 comments, and your other recent post languish. On the other hand, your blog got attention for commenting on US Soccer. I hope you keep up the diversity of topics, I thought all the other posts were quality, and I hope the traffic picks up. Maybe its simply a function of finding the “right” audience for things.

  One other thought from a co-worker who follows and plays the game: Americans don’t seem to talk tactics, Americans seem to talk about heart and effort. We’d be a lot better off if we started talking tactics. Frankly, I love tactics. It would be good if the US fans, and media were to adopt a more sophisticated attitude toward detailed tactical analysis. Of course, I’d love to see it here.

  For example, the US MNT seems to approach tactics in a manner suitable for the Championship in the UK (and perhaps lower end Premier sides). In most countries a National team playing like the USA would be skewered in the press, but not here. They do this despite having talent that could compete with sides higher in the table (there’s a good question: if the US MNT competed in the EPL, where would it finish? Off the top of my head, we’re about a good as Wigan, which is optimistic.).

  Of course, we should be clear that the standard in Club soccer is much higher than National team soccer. The best soccer you can see is the Champions league, not the World Cup.

  There are some fantastic resources out there for looking at tactics, good books, good blogs, and the availability of detailed statistics for some competitions.

• 

  Paulo said,

  I find the Gold Cup a little frustrating as a Costa Rican soccer fan. CR has consistently been a top three CONCACAF team over the last decade, and we consistently give the U.S. difficulties (while Mexico beats CR and the U.S. beats Mexico, completing the Rock, Paper, Scissors.) The point being, I would love to see CR compete in the confederations cup and try and have a run like the one the U.S. just had, but it’s never going to happen while the U.S. gets home field every Gold Cup. It’s a huge competitive advantage. The U.S. gets killed every time it’s in CR, but for some reason, come Gold Cup time they can only play in U.S. stadiums.

• 

  Chris said,

  Just thought I’d add a couple things.

  One, Holden is good in spurts. That’s good for a young player, and I’ll take it. Rogers is similar on the wing, though he does not have good ball-control skills in the center. Both are young and I’m satisfied that we have some young depth there.

  Two, we are incredibly thin at wide backline, which has been mentioned. We’ll potentially survive 2010, but after that, we need help. Badly.

  Three, one of the reasons the Gold Cup is played in the US is the terrible security situation elsewhere in the hemisphere (except, of course, for Canada). The US is safe. Everywhere else is really not. Not even Mexico. For one match, sure. For 12 teams, scattered all over the country? I’d like to see the US have to play on the road in this thing, but I’m afraid it won’t ever happen.

  Finally, three weeks ago, not one soul would have put Davies as a solid backup striker for the US. Today, we all have him as a WC STARTER. Who else is out there that hasn’t been given a chance to show us what he can do?

• 

  Jose said,

  Chris

  I respectfully disagree on Davies. He has been on many peoples radar as a potential starter but due to him playing in Sweden no one gets to see how he has been developing until the Confed. Cup. It’s obvious he has taken strides and still needs to progress but he has reached the point where he has to be considered a starter or at the very least in the squad. Based on his Confed. Cup performance if I were Bob Bradley I would pencil him in as a starter. As far as potential strikers who haven’t had a look I can’t think of any. Cooper, Adu, Casey and even Arnaud have had a shot and didn’t do anything to make anyone think they are better than Altidore, Davies and I hate to say even Ching. Guys like Eskandarian and Buddle aren’t even as good as Cooper and the others so if there is some unknown out there maybe you can tip us off.

• 

  frank said,

  I’m sorry, but Rickardo Clark, is a one dimensional player, Maurice Edu needs more experience but has good potential in that position, Beckerman needs more top level games to see if he is the man, I still think we weak in that position

• 

  Jose said,

  Clark is #3 or #4 in the pecking order and yes is one dimensional. Edu is starting in Scotland and playing well and if not for Jermaine Jones signing on to play for the US would probably start with Michael Bradley. Beckerman would be lucky to make the squad. As I see it Michael Bradley and Jermaine Jones start. Edu is #3 and after that nobobdy will even sniff the field. In case of injury Clark or Feilhaber depending on the situation are next in line. Beckerman, Holden etc… are way down in the pecking order. The top 3 are solid players and will see almost all the action. Clark and Feilhaber while a step below them are servicable. Holden possibly can move up in the pecking order in the future while Beckerman is an emergency replacement only. All in all it is our deepest position.

• 

  Jose said,

  As you can see defensive mid is deep but where are our attacking mids? I guess of all of them Bradley and Feilhaber are our best at the moment, maybe add Torres and Holden , Beckerman into the mix. None of these guys are true Maestros just masquerading as one. Hence, Bob Bradley plays his best all around players there together and until we develop a true Maestro thats what he will continue to do.

• 

  Creaven said,

  Bill — From what I can tell, all of my stories get similar amounts of hits, but it seems the U.S.N.T stories is where most people like to comment. I think U.S. fans are just looking for somewhere to be heard. I am happy to hear you like all the columns.

  I’m with you tactics and I love your question. I think the U.S. would finish 11th in the EPL.

  Paulo — It’s not impossible that a team could knock of the U.S. in the Gold Cup, but I understand what you’re saying — it’s not fair.

  Chris — Mexico probably couldn’t host an entire tournament, but it surely could host one or two matches (they do it for World Cup qualifiers).

  I like the who else is out there question. I don’t think Davies came out of no where, but there might be a player who does. Keep your eye on midfielders Jemal Johnson, who plays for MK Dons in England’s League One, and Jeremiah White, who plays on the same team as Benny Feilhaber in Denmark — AGF Aarhus.

  Jose — The U.S. doesn’t have a true creative center midfielder, but I think Bradley bring enough offense to the central midfield position. Torres could be a key player too, but I simply havent seen him play much.

• 

  Jose said,

  Creaven

  I like Bradley as well and I think with Jones behind him he will have a little more freedom to operate in an offensive role. The fact that he is a solid defender is a big plus too. He’s very young and will continue to get better, I think it will be a good pairing. Obviously we don’t have a Zidane or Iniesta type of player. Michael Bradley is a good all around player and I would compare him in “style” to Steven Gerrard although certainly no where near as talented and accomplished. Given the players we have it probably is the most effective way to go. Even if you could argue and I’m not making this argument but say you could argue that Torres or Feilhaber or anyone else is a more creative midfielder than Bradley. No one is head and shoulders above him offensivelyh that you would have to play them and I would say Bradley is head and shoulders above them on the defensive side of the ball. So my opinion is Jones and Bradley are the starters. Edu is #3 with Feilhaber, and possibly Torres/Clark as insurance/spot duty. Biggest ? of these is Torres who doesn’t seem to be on Bradley’s radar so maybe Holden, Beckerman or as you state White or Johnson take his spot. Torres can play on the left too which may give him an edge on the others.

• 

  lbgc said,

  Bill,

  You wrote : There are some fantastic resources out there for looking at tactics, good books, good blogs, and the availability of detailed statistics for some competitions.

  Can you post some links?

  Thanks.

• 

  Bill said,

  Absolutely.

  The best place for a good read is Jonathan Wilson’s column, “The Question” in the Gaurdian (he’s the author of “Inverting the Pyramid” a fantastic book),

  http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/series/the-question

  He also writes on the state of the game in Eastern Europe.

  A couple of blogs focus on the Arsenal & Manchester United teams (lots of Barcelona stuff on Arsenal),

  http://arsenalcolumn.wordpress.com/
  http://manutd24.wordpress.com/

  The is a statistics page for the confederations cup at FIFA

  http://www.fifa.com/confederationscup/statistics/index.html

  For stats from the EPL

  http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/jan/30/chalkboards-premier-league-stats

  These are the ones I’ve bookmarked. A good magazine is success in soccer with tactics from a coaching point-of-view

  http://www.successinsoccer.com/cms/front_content.php

  Aside from Wilson’s “Inverting the Pyramid” I’d recommend “The Italian Job” by Gianluca Vialli, Gabriele Marcotti which contains a thorough analysis of the differences between English & Italian versions of the game, “Brilliant Orange” by David Winner who delves into the mind of total football.

• 

  Bill said,

  In light of the Gold Cup final debacle, it would be interesting to see some thoughts on what it means to the USA with the big WC qualifier coming up in Azteca on August 12. As usual, I’ll offer my two cents on the topic.

  The horrid result came from an utter and complete collapse of the US team in a ten-minute span during the second half. More than anything, this result calls into question the “fighting spirit” of the side that Bradley fielded. It also amplifies the already grave concerns about Bradley’s ability to manage a match. It made two straight finals where the USA crumbled in the second half. It seems that we have problems with tactical adjustments, fitness and mentality. Bradley is the only common element and should be accountable. It is also clear that no such accountability will be forthcoming.

  We already knew that the Gold Cup defenders for the USA were suspect and the talents of Vela and Del Santos shredded them. I believe that beyond Gooch and Demerit we are weak at defense, lacking any outside backs that really rise to the standard necessary to make a decent WC run. We have an awesome goalkeeper to bolster the lackluster defending to our credit.

  Again, the USA gets hurt by the referee. I agree that it was a soft penalty, but it was a penalty within the laws of the game. Some American fans claim conspiracy, but I’d blame naïveté on the part of the US players. We’ve seen this problem far too often, and the US players are naïve about the game, which has hurt this team fatally at the Olympics, and Confederations Cup before. Again, its our training and coaching that has failed to provide schooling on how to avoid getting stung by the officiating.

  Bradley also showed his tendency to play a direct (long ball) style to our detriment. Finally, against Mexico, the US gifted possession to their opponents and paid for it. Ching played and played despite being almost uniformly ineffective. Ching is far better than Casey, but neither offers the team anything we need. The approach favored by Bradley is an abysmal throwback to the bygone era of big brutish target men who can hold the ball up and defenders who can get stuck in or clear the ball to row Z. The time for these tactics to go, they should not represent the USA.

  The embarrassing loss may have been by a US “C” team, but a humiliating 5-0 loss on the home soil is something to pay attention to. Losing 8-0 in two straight second halves of finals is another thing. The continued adherence to stale tactics is yet another. US Soccer doesn’t seem to see any of this as a problem. August 12 will provide one more data point: was beating Spain a fluke or progress? Can we do well in South Africa next summer? Is Bob Bradley up to the task?

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